Trust, Part II, the Instant Messaging

Mr. Bill: On matters of trust... I would like to pursue that ... feels like a view coming into focus

The Psych: Tell me

Mr. Bill: Trust as the absence of judgment; of not being judged

The Psych: Trust is something that comes over time...

Mr. Bill: and conversely, not judging; Trust is earned

The Psych: trust is easier if you know your own faults and weaknesses...

Mr. Bill: Interesting... the difference between the noun “trust,” and the verb, “to trust.”

The Psych: have you had a chance to read Ante Up, yet? It is S’s (my husband’s) thoughts about engaging, and peripherally, trust, I suspect

Mr. Bill: S. is posting to your blog?

The Psych: no, he is posting to my head.


The Psych: what else about trust?

Mr. Bill: Amending the judgment angle ... not absence of judgment but fair judgment... I 'trust' the Judge to be fair...

The Psych: So I have this guy, who is trying to tell me his truth. And he connects, and it is almost sexual in its intensity, and then something happens. The walls come up. I can see it. He can tell me it is happening. He knows it is a trust issue, but can't help me further, and it just makes the screaming in his head louder to try.

Mr. Bill: Third party interference?

The Psych: ?

Mr. Bill: His voices?

The Psych: No, bipolar, but a good thought, though. Protective in nature, he tells me. He knows it happens and was a little freaked I could tell.

Mr. Bill: Protective of what/who?

The Psych: Omg, his story is ugly, but just protective of his romantic soul, shall we say? Protective of me judging? Protective of the pain, and wanting to wish it weren't? That is my wondering...

Mr. Bill: So in essence he cannot trust himself

*my eyebrows lift back into my hairline*

The Psych: So simple, God, I get so sucked into the difficult. The long road is to wait it out, just be easy and trustful until he relaxes. I don't really feel like I have and endless time with these guys, and I want a shortcut.
Mr. Bill: Our foundations, our gut instincts, are valid because we (eventually) can trust ourselves - the parts that defy explanation or even rationality.

The Psych: and if you are raised in an environment where chaos reigns, and you start doing lines of cocaine at eleven because you see your parents doing it.... Trust becomes just a word that is moderately hard to spell.

Mr. Bill: Not much stability to predicate any valid belief structure on.

The Psych: they look at me with such terrible eyes, Bill.

Mr. Bill: While clinically it is very unsound having a symbol or icon to transfer validity to is an easy way to temporarily bridge this divide.

The Psych: LOLOLLOOOOLOOLLOOLOLL. I have started to bring in rocks from our vacations, and when we are in session, I bring each guys’ rock out and set it between us. Either of us can pick it up, and I am slowly explaining that it is absorbing the essence of what we do here. It is also something of mine I give to them; a symbol of my belief in them.

Mr. Bill: Great minds think alike...just wish I had one.*) Often you will see the acceptance of a religious icon or symbol - How may of your fellows have converted to Islam? Or Christianity.

The Psych: a number. Can I covert them to rockism? The therapeutic stone?

Mr. Bill: I question the legitimacy of such transference as it doesn't speak to the real mental health issue.

The Psych: ok, explain

Mr. Bill: The stone as an icon, at least, can be held and identified clearly apart from their beliefs.

The Psych: The first person I tried this with has a primary issue of not believing he is worthwhile. I've started each session since by having him recite why he is here. I've told him twice. He waffled the first time, and gave some pretty good answers. My answer was I could see his shine. I wouldn't bother with him if he didn't have something that shone out from the pain and the fear. His rock is lovely white quartz.

Mr. Bill: Blindly accepting (by faith) a relationship with a deity provides some intellectual succor but doesn't speak at all to any underlying issues.

The Psych: Ah, I want the rocks to stand for the part they are in desperate need of; something to remind them of their strength, even when they forget.

Mr. Bill: You approach is much more therapeutic...

The Psych: Hehehe, that is my goal, therapy… not just blind faith, but some comfort object. If I can find a way for them to take part of my beliefs about rightness home with them, we’ve taken a great step. I know I don’t have the ultimate answer, but I’m doing better than most of them….

Mr. Bill: the stone is an excellent object... strong, timeless, undeniable..

The Psych: And so comforting in the hand; and they are beautiful, precious, even.

Mr. Bill: (*It is unfortunate they cannot carry them from the session. Having it on their person would be so much more reinforcing.*)

The Psych: Can't do it – contraband, a weapon. I would find a way to get them their stones if they want them, but I don't know how to do it appropriately. Perhaps dispensation from the warden?

Mr. Bill: Wouldn't actually want them "trading" them in a heated discussion about rightness of beliefs.

The Psych: no, and I think they must stay in my office for at least most of a while. They have to be protected from the yard.

Mr. Bill: Can you imagine the effect of losing one's stone?

The Psych: Can you imagine the impact of taking one's stone after a year of therapy with it??

Mr. Bill: To round out a perspective; one can trust the stone to be the stone. It is exactly what it is...nothing more, nothing less. A very good starting point for someone lost to himself.

The Psych: someone lost to himself…. that is it. Unable to trust himself.

Mr. Bill: BTW: When I was leading C.R. (Christian AA) it was very easy to rely on the entire infrastructure of personal worth (You are important to Jesus.) And as long as they remained in the church environment it was sustained. Once out in the world it began to crumble very quickly. That is why I express concern about transference to symbols or icons.

The Psych: ahhhh. My first unexplored thought, is to make them work for the infrastructure of their relationship with me, to give it more tenacity. When I asked Mr. S. to tell me why he was here, he initially freaked a little, as though he were in the wrong place. I required him to establish his right to be in session with me.

Mr. Bill: A strong position - not sure I agree... I would need time to evaluate as I don't have first hand perspective.

The Psych: Ok, gonna take this and work it into a blog, Husband is here, and I need to go down. Having your thoughts is precious, please keep them coming....

Mr. Bill: I will e-mail you my follow up.